[James E. Talmage]
Talmage has dinner with Jesse Knight, whom Talmage says denied that he received his wealth by supernatural means, contrary to the beliefs of the promoters of the "Dream Mine."
[Chronology of the Life and Work of James E. Talmage, J. Trevor Antley, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MJsHY83JZL_n6CjWq11y1trT_CVXMMXAx2uYOWAwn0c/edit#heading=h.2zfdaoa]
Today In Mormon History-fb
Several curious tidbits that happened on this day in Mormon History
130 years ago today - Nov 13, 1894
The genealogical society of the Church, known as the Genealogical Society of Utah, was organized.
[Church News: Historical Chronology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, http://www.ldschurchnewsarchive.com/articles/58765/Historical-chronology-of-The-Church-of-Jesus-Christ-of-Latter-day-Saints.html]
[Church News: Historical Chronology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, http://www.ldschurchnewsarchive.com/articles/58765/Historical-chronology-of-The-Church-of-Jesus-Christ-of-Latter-day-Saints.html]
135 years ago today - Nov 13, 1889
[First Presidency Office Journal]
.... then Bro[ther] A. D. Thatcher, John Clark, W[illiam] W Riter, E[dwin] G Woolley, Frank Jennings & J H Anderson were asked some questions in point as to oaths & all of whom answered very well & pointedly. Bro[ther] Riter had formed an impression in regard to avenging the blood of the prophets & church when he got his endowments which had continued with him so that he was not clear as to other brethren.
[First Presidency Office Journal, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
.... then Bro[ther] A. D. Thatcher, John Clark, W[illiam] W Riter, E[dwin] G Woolley, Frank Jennings & J H Anderson were asked some questions in point as to oaths & all of whom answered very well & pointedly. Bro[ther] Riter had formed an impression in regard to avenging the blood of the prophets & church when he got his endowments which had continued with him so that he was not clear as to other brethren.
[First Presidency Office Journal, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
135 years ago today - Nov 13, 1889
[Apostle Heber J. Grant]
At seven thirty attended a meeting at the Gardo. The question of how far we would be justified in revealing the secrets of the Endowments to head off the attempts that are being made to show that there are oaths taken in the Endowments that are contrary to those that a good citizen should take was fully and freely talked over, and the general feeling was to say nothing about the endowments in Court and to suffer the consequences no matter what they would be.
[The First Presidency Office Journal entry for this day noted during a court hearing: " ... then Bro[ther] A. D. Thatcher, John Clark, W[illiam] W Riter, E[dwin] G Woolley, Frank Jennings & J H Anderson were asked some questions in point as to oaths & all of whom answered very well & pointedly. Bro[ther] Riter had formed an impression in regard to avenging the blood of the prophets & church when he got his endowments which had continued with him so that he was not clear as to other brethren.]
[Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
At seven thirty attended a meeting at the Gardo. The question of how far we would be justified in revealing the secrets of the Endowments to head off the attempts that are being made to show that there are oaths taken in the Endowments that are contrary to those that a good citizen should take was fully and freely talked over, and the general feeling was to say nothing about the endowments in Court and to suffer the consequences no matter what they would be.
[The First Presidency Office Journal entry for this day noted during a court hearing: " ... then Bro[ther] A. D. Thatcher, John Clark, W[illiam] W Riter, E[dwin] G Woolley, Frank Jennings & J H Anderson were asked some questions in point as to oaths & all of whom answered very well & pointedly. Bro[ther] Riter had formed an impression in regard to avenging the blood of the prophets & church when he got his endowments which had continued with him so that he was not clear as to other brethren.]
[Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
140 years ago today - Nov 13, 1884 (Thursday)
Eighty Latter-day Saint emigrants from the Southern States mission, and nine returning Elders, left Chattanooga, Tenn., bound for Colorado and Utah.
[Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology]
[Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology]
75 years ago today - Nov 12, 1949
[Former apostle Richard R. Lyman, Letter to Stephen L Richards (regarding his excommunication for adultry)]
Deep down in my heart I feel as if I had no trial. I think I was in the presence of the Brethren fewer than ten minutes. Brother Joseph Fielding [Smith] said 'We desire to give this serious matter as little publicity as possible' then came that terrible publicity the very next day that was read all over the world. My Michigan classmates (and I had been made president for life of the class of '95) heard it everywhere. My engineering friends, some of them the greatest engineers in the world, began discussing it.
Does it not appear to you to have been a strange way to treat a friend after being in session with him all day under such conditions that at the slightest whisper he could have been held and he would gladly and quickly have explained his conduct. I say does it not seem to have been most unkind to have sent after him, not an automobile full but a bus as large as a streetcar full of armed officers who split and [s]mashed down the door as if they were endeavoring to capture the worse kind of wicked armed and fighting criminal. The Chief of Police, Reed Vetterli, told me immediately afterward that if he had known that I was the one involved he would not have permitted the officers to do it to say nothing of his leading it himself as he did. He was only told that they were after a 'Big Shot.'
More than six years have not passed since this tragic affair happened. Many have forgotten it and I am treated by my school and engineering friends as if nothing had ever happened and many Church people, apparently thinking I was harshly treated, pay me more attention than they ever did before. I went to Midvale [Utah] today to the home of a friend who has lost his wife and the people flocked around like a long lost brother and one woman insisted on my going to her home to see her father and mother. I feel as if I cannot go to any chapel except in my own ward. I never miss my sacrament meeting but of course regret having to refuse to partake of the sacrament.
Now as to my offense. For reasons that seemed to me to justify it I agreed to regard that woman as my wife and she agreed to regard me as her husband. While no written note was made of this agreement at the time the date I feel sure was Nov[ember]. 9, 1925. This relationship had gone on for 18 years in a most quiet way before the publicity of more than six years ago. It seems to me therefore, now that I am nearly 80 years old, and since the Lord knows my heart and all the facts concerning my case, it may be wisest and best, as I stated above, and after these six long years, to wait and let the Lord over there give me what I deserve. ...
If anything could possibly be done, without publicity to induce the Brethren to extend to me the hand of welcome and friendship in the Church Office Building and in our various places of worship that would be the richest blessing I could ask. But having had another wife since Nov. 9, 1925, although not living with her, this is a something that I presume is impossible.
Please regard this letter as personal and confidential. Perhaps after reading it you may think it desirable for us to meet again and discuss some of these things further. Some one has said: 'If a man has not done anything for which he ought to be ashamed or sorry he is not a very bad man.' I hope this is the case with me. Can I ever be forgiven for saying that?
[Richard R. Lyman, Letter to Stephen L Richards, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
Deep down in my heart I feel as if I had no trial. I think I was in the presence of the Brethren fewer than ten minutes. Brother Joseph Fielding [Smith] said 'We desire to give this serious matter as little publicity as possible' then came that terrible publicity the very next day that was read all over the world. My Michigan classmates (and I had been made president for life of the class of '95) heard it everywhere. My engineering friends, some of them the greatest engineers in the world, began discussing it.
Does it not appear to you to have been a strange way to treat a friend after being in session with him all day under such conditions that at the slightest whisper he could have been held and he would gladly and quickly have explained his conduct. I say does it not seem to have been most unkind to have sent after him, not an automobile full but a bus as large as a streetcar full of armed officers who split and [s]mashed down the door as if they were endeavoring to capture the worse kind of wicked armed and fighting criminal. The Chief of Police, Reed Vetterli, told me immediately afterward that if he had known that I was the one involved he would not have permitted the officers to do it to say nothing of his leading it himself as he did. He was only told that they were after a 'Big Shot.'
More than six years have not passed since this tragic affair happened. Many have forgotten it and I am treated by my school and engineering friends as if nothing had ever happened and many Church people, apparently thinking I was harshly treated, pay me more attention than they ever did before. I went to Midvale [Utah] today to the home of a friend who has lost his wife and the people flocked around like a long lost brother and one woman insisted on my going to her home to see her father and mother. I feel as if I cannot go to any chapel except in my own ward. I never miss my sacrament meeting but of course regret having to refuse to partake of the sacrament.
Now as to my offense. For reasons that seemed to me to justify it I agreed to regard that woman as my wife and she agreed to regard me as her husband. While no written note was made of this agreement at the time the date I feel sure was Nov[ember]. 9, 1925. This relationship had gone on for 18 years in a most quiet way before the publicity of more than six years ago. It seems to me therefore, now that I am nearly 80 years old, and since the Lord knows my heart and all the facts concerning my case, it may be wisest and best, as I stated above, and after these six long years, to wait and let the Lord over there give me what I deserve. ...
If anything could possibly be done, without publicity to induce the Brethren to extend to me the hand of welcome and friendship in the Church Office Building and in our various places of worship that would be the richest blessing I could ask. But having had another wife since Nov. 9, 1925, although not living with her, this is a something that I presume is impossible.
Please regard this letter as personal and confidential. Perhaps after reading it you may think it desirable for us to meet again and discuss some of these things further. Some one has said: 'If a man has not done anything for which he ought to be ashamed or sorry he is not a very bad man.' I hope this is the case with me. Can I ever be forgiven for saying that?
[Richard R. Lyman, Letter to Stephen L Richards, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
135 years ago today - Nov 12, 1889
[Apostle Heber J. Grant]
This afternoon at 4 I attended a meeting at the Gardo House. The meeting was called to see what the best action to take would be to head off the efforts that were being made to prevent the members of the church from becoming citizens.
[Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
This afternoon at 4 I attended a meeting at the Gardo House. The meeting was called to see what the best action to take would be to head off the efforts that were being made to prevent the members of the church from becoming citizens.
[Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
140 years ago today - Nov 12, 1884
[Lorenzo Saunders Interview regarding Joseph Smith]
.... I know it was before Jo. claimed to have taken the plates from the hill Cummorah. And there was some two or three of us traveled that ground over, & we could not find a hole. There was a great raft of them digging for money. E.L.K.
Who was at the head? Mr. S.
Jo. Smith with his peep Stone. I never saw Jo. Smith digging[.] ...
Mr. S.
(Excited) I tell you, sir, I am one of them that saw digging there & I will Swear to it. I am one of them that went & tore the door down to the cave. My Father was in possession & he ordered us to break that door down & put the hole up.--
Benjamin Tabor owned the land at that time. The cave was situated on the East side of the hill. ... I never Saw young Jo. Smith there by the cave. I will tell you I take the evidence from what the old man said respecting that; The old man said: what: Jo. could see in his peep stone what there was in that cave. & the old man said that Joseph could see. [p. 8] E.L.K.
Was it not an account of the stories of there being treasure hidden there by old Spanish Buchaneers? Mr. S.
Well I will tell you they did dig; Willard Chase & Alvin, the one that died. Willard Chase told me about a place; He said he & alvin Smith went there to dig & there was a chest there; and he said it was so large, & so wide (measuring with a cane) It was an iron chest. And he said they dug down & it only lay a little under the ground. I says how did this shovel become broken up like that? Willard Chase then told me; He says Alvin & I went down & found that chest. Willard Chase claimed his sister Sally had a peep stone. The Lord bless you I have seen her peep stone a hundred times; It was a little bit of a stone & it was green & she would hold it before light. After I left there, it was thirty years ago:--after I left there I can not tell you whether the peep stone was used or not[.] When men will come to me & tell me that men can pick stones out of this Earth [sentence incomplete]. as I told Jo. Smith when he dug one out of a well on Chases Farm in the Shape of a baby's
foot. They dug that hole for money. Chase's & Smiths altogether was digging it[.] [p. 9] I knew all about the stone; Edmund Chase told me all about it, He lives here now, this side of Kalamazoo. He is a man older than I am[.] his name is Edmund Chase[.] I tell you when a man will come <<tell>> me that any one can get a stone, & see knowledge of futurity, I say that he is a liar & the truth is not in him. Steve Mungou lost his pocket book in the road with some $50. in money in it. He went right to Sally Chase to get her to look & see where it was; She went & looked. He was drawing wood out of the woods. She said that pocket book lays right at the side of a log in the woods where you loaded that wood. It lays right at the side of the log well we went & hunted & raked the ground over where she said but could not find it. It past along & finally one night got a paper from Canadagua [Canandaigua, New York], & in it was that a pocket book was found & taken to an old Ontario Bank[.]
Took it there & the owner could come & describe his book. And he went & found his pocket book at the bank. I lost [a] drag tooth out of my drag, dragging on my brothers premises there; I says: Sally, tell me where is that drag tooth? She told me "it lays in a log heap." She says I think it lays a little past you will find it [p. 10]
I went & hunted & hunted but could not find it there. I afterwards found it away over in one corner of the field. Well I was going to tell you about Jo. We went to Smiths one day, it was a rainy day; We went into the old mans shop, he was a cooper, and the old man had a shirt on it was the raggedest & dirtyest shirt, and all full of holes. & we got Jo. Smith to look & tell us what color our Girls hair was. well you see by & by some of them says go to Jo. says he Jo. come look into futurity & tell us how it is there? Jo. says I can not do that, I can not look into futurity I can not look into anything that is holy. The old man stood there and says: "I guess he can not look into my shirt then["] E.L.K.
Do you remember whether Joseph Smith's wife was there when you saw Rigdon? M[r]. S.
I think she was. she used to be frequently at our house but I cant tell certainly for Jo. went down & married her in Penn. she used to be an awful fine pretty girl; she was an intelegent woman. My oldest sister & she used to be very intimate after Joseph was married. Right away after they was married she used to come to our house. My Father died in 1825. [p. 11]
Speaking of the Smith family I gave them credit for everything except Mormonism; They were good neighbors; They were kind neighbors in sickness; & Hiram Smith in particular when my father died he was at our house all the time. He <<& I>> had a brother died and he was as attentive then. They was always ready to bestow anything. The old man was always telling yarns, he would go to turkey shoots & get tight & he would pretend to put spells on their guns & would tell them they could not shoot a turkey. At the time the big hole was dug in the hill they was duped by one Walters who pretended to be a conjurer, I heard Willard Chase say that he was duped. They could not be deceived in it after he had gone through with a certain movements & [-] charged them $7. I seen the old man dig there day in and day out; He was close by. I used to go there & see them work. Joseph Smith never did work. They claim there in that book that Jo. Smith was a great worker. he was a lazy dog, I
tell you the truth. He never worked for my brother; because I was there all the time. & Jo. Smith never worked there, & Jo. Smith was a fellow that would not form any acquaintance with anybody [p. 12] much & if he did he would get have conflict. Them days people drank liquor everybody drank whiskey & the Smiths with the rest ... L.S.
... I do not think Joseph Smith ever got any plates or ever had any plates. He got a glass box. I saw where the box was that was all. They claimed it was in that box. Now, if the plates was the thickness of tin the box could not hold one quarter of them. ... it was when Jo. Smith claimed to get the plates. Jo. Smith told the story but he told so many stories, it was a hard thing to get the fact in any way or shape. Now I can tell you what he told to our house respecting this revelation that he had in the very commencement before Alvin died, his brother; Sometime before this he claimed that he saw the Angel & that he was notified of these plates & all that & the time would be made known to him but it was not at that time made known to him but he must take his oldest brother & go <<to>> the spot & he could obtain them. Before that time his oldest brother died. Jo. Smith got that revelation a year or two before that. I do not know as I can tell what year Alvin died in[.] It
was in the summer before Alvin died he told it at our house. perhaps Mrs. Smith has got the date of Alvins death in her record. After that Alvin died; Then Joseph said that he saw the angel again; The Angel told him he must go & get him a wife & then he could take his wife & go & get the plates. & he pretended he must get a black horse or a mule to go & get the plates[.] We went there & we examined the hill [p. 16] all over where he claimed to got the plates & we could not find a place that was broke & there was no plates on the ground where the hill was not broke. Robinson said he tried many times to find the hole where he took them out, that is on the west hill it was C cleared off E.L.K.
He claimed he threw it into a brush heap there is trees on the top of the hill & timber on the South side. ...
About the revelation that Joseph had that there was going to be a new Messiah brought into the world, I heard it intimated that Catherine was in a family way. I know nothing about it. I do not know anything about it, says I, this is a very delicate matter to meddle with female characters. E.L.K.
It is Catherine Saulbury now. L.S.
The time they lived there was 1830; She was quite a solid woman at that time. If you have read Tuckers book dont you know it is said that Martin Harris went through the streets claiming they had received a new [r]evelation there was coming out a new Jesus Christ Martin proclaimed one that would open the Eyes of the blind & cause the dum[b] to Speak. I never heard him say so. & on the way to Kirtland that child was born & it was a dead one & it was a she Jesus. It was implicated there at the time it Catherine & I told your brother so. says I it is intimated around that Sidney Rigdon was the origin of that [child][.] [p. 21] says I if you want to go into obscene matters I can tell somethings too. I went to Manchester at a Tavern. The old man Smith got tight there & Blue Brown. And they was always Contending to old Jo. that his Penis was 16 inches long. I told your brother that he climax was [once?][.] it was in a cold day & there their wives sat waiting outside for them &
old Jo. & al measuring his drink. And then they had a square, & they measured; so old Jo. believed it was longer[.] so they pushed so hard they pushed it right through the seat of his breeches. I never believed about this there matter that Tucker put in the book, they claimed about the Wm Stafford black s[h]eep.
[Lorenzo Saunders, Interviewed by E. L. Kelley, 12 November 1884, 1-22, E. L. Kelley Papers, "Miscellany," RLDS Church Library-Archives, Independence, Missouri., as cited in Dan Vogel, Early Mormon Documents: Lorenzo Saunders Interview]
.... I know it was before Jo. claimed to have taken the plates from the hill Cummorah. And there was some two or three of us traveled that ground over, & we could not find a hole. There was a great raft of them digging for money. E.L.K.
Who was at the head? Mr. S.
Jo. Smith with his peep Stone. I never saw Jo. Smith digging[.] ...
Mr. S.
(Excited) I tell you, sir, I am one of them that saw digging there & I will Swear to it. I am one of them that went & tore the door down to the cave. My Father was in possession & he ordered us to break that door down & put the hole up.--
Benjamin Tabor owned the land at that time. The cave was situated on the East side of the hill. ... I never Saw young Jo. Smith there by the cave. I will tell you I take the evidence from what the old man said respecting that; The old man said: what: Jo. could see in his peep stone what there was in that cave. & the old man said that Joseph could see. [p. 8] E.L.K.
Was it not an account of the stories of there being treasure hidden there by old Spanish Buchaneers? Mr. S.
Well I will tell you they did dig; Willard Chase & Alvin, the one that died. Willard Chase told me about a place; He said he & alvin Smith went there to dig & there was a chest there; and he said it was so large, & so wide (measuring with a cane) It was an iron chest. And he said they dug down & it only lay a little under the ground. I says how did this shovel become broken up like that? Willard Chase then told me; He says Alvin & I went down & found that chest. Willard Chase claimed his sister Sally had a peep stone. The Lord bless you I have seen her peep stone a hundred times; It was a little bit of a stone & it was green & she would hold it before light. After I left there, it was thirty years ago:--after I left there I can not tell you whether the peep stone was used or not[.] When men will come to me & tell me that men can pick stones out of this Earth [sentence incomplete]. as I told Jo. Smith when he dug one out of a well on Chases Farm in the Shape of a baby's
foot. They dug that hole for money. Chase's & Smiths altogether was digging it[.] [p. 9] I knew all about the stone; Edmund Chase told me all about it, He lives here now, this side of Kalamazoo. He is a man older than I am[.] his name is Edmund Chase[.] I tell you when a man will come <<tell>> me that any one can get a stone, & see knowledge of futurity, I say that he is a liar & the truth is not in him. Steve Mungou lost his pocket book in the road with some $50. in money in it. He went right to Sally Chase to get her to look & see where it was; She went & looked. He was drawing wood out of the woods. She said that pocket book lays right at the side of a log in the woods where you loaded that wood. It lays right at the side of the log well we went & hunted & raked the ground over where she said but could not find it. It past along & finally one night got a paper from Canadagua [Canandaigua, New York], & in it was that a pocket book was found & taken to an old Ontario Bank[.]
Took it there & the owner could come & describe his book. And he went & found his pocket book at the bank. I lost [a] drag tooth out of my drag, dragging on my brothers premises there; I says: Sally, tell me where is that drag tooth? She told me "it lays in a log heap." She says I think it lays a little past you will find it [p. 10]
I went & hunted & hunted but could not find it there. I afterwards found it away over in one corner of the field. Well I was going to tell you about Jo. We went to Smiths one day, it was a rainy day; We went into the old mans shop, he was a cooper, and the old man had a shirt on it was the raggedest & dirtyest shirt, and all full of holes. & we got Jo. Smith to look & tell us what color our Girls hair was. well you see by & by some of them says go to Jo. says he Jo. come look into futurity & tell us how it is there? Jo. says I can not do that, I can not look into futurity I can not look into anything that is holy. The old man stood there and says: "I guess he can not look into my shirt then["] E.L.K.
Do you remember whether Joseph Smith's wife was there when you saw Rigdon? M[r]. S.
I think she was. she used to be frequently at our house but I cant tell certainly for Jo. went down & married her in Penn. she used to be an awful fine pretty girl; she was an intelegent woman. My oldest sister & she used to be very intimate after Joseph was married. Right away after they was married she used to come to our house. My Father died in 1825. [p. 11]
Speaking of the Smith family I gave them credit for everything except Mormonism; They were good neighbors; They were kind neighbors in sickness; & Hiram Smith in particular when my father died he was at our house all the time. He <<& I>> had a brother died and he was as attentive then. They was always ready to bestow anything. The old man was always telling yarns, he would go to turkey shoots & get tight & he would pretend to put spells on their guns & would tell them they could not shoot a turkey. At the time the big hole was dug in the hill they was duped by one Walters who pretended to be a conjurer, I heard Willard Chase say that he was duped. They could not be deceived in it after he had gone through with a certain movements & [-] charged them $7. I seen the old man dig there day in and day out; He was close by. I used to go there & see them work. Joseph Smith never did work. They claim there in that book that Jo. Smith was a great worker. he was a lazy dog, I
tell you the truth. He never worked for my brother; because I was there all the time. & Jo. Smith never worked there, & Jo. Smith was a fellow that would not form any acquaintance with anybody [p. 12] much & if he did he would get have conflict. Them days people drank liquor everybody drank whiskey & the Smiths with the rest ... L.S.
... I do not think Joseph Smith ever got any plates or ever had any plates. He got a glass box. I saw where the box was that was all. They claimed it was in that box. Now, if the plates was the thickness of tin the box could not hold one quarter of them. ... it was when Jo. Smith claimed to get the plates. Jo. Smith told the story but he told so many stories, it was a hard thing to get the fact in any way or shape. Now I can tell you what he told to our house respecting this revelation that he had in the very commencement before Alvin died, his brother; Sometime before this he claimed that he saw the Angel & that he was notified of these plates & all that & the time would be made known to him but it was not at that time made known to him but he must take his oldest brother & go <<to>> the spot & he could obtain them. Before that time his oldest brother died. Jo. Smith got that revelation a year or two before that. I do not know as I can tell what year Alvin died in[.] It
was in the summer before Alvin died he told it at our house. perhaps Mrs. Smith has got the date of Alvins death in her record. After that Alvin died; Then Joseph said that he saw the angel again; The Angel told him he must go & get him a wife & then he could take his wife & go & get the plates. & he pretended he must get a black horse or a mule to go & get the plates[.] We went there & we examined the hill [p. 16] all over where he claimed to got the plates & we could not find a place that was broke & there was no plates on the ground where the hill was not broke. Robinson said he tried many times to find the hole where he took them out, that is on the west hill it was C cleared off E.L.K.
He claimed he threw it into a brush heap there is trees on the top of the hill & timber on the South side. ...
About the revelation that Joseph had that there was going to be a new Messiah brought into the world, I heard it intimated that Catherine was in a family way. I know nothing about it. I do not know anything about it, says I, this is a very delicate matter to meddle with female characters. E.L.K.
It is Catherine Saulbury now. L.S.
The time they lived there was 1830; She was quite a solid woman at that time. If you have read Tuckers book dont you know it is said that Martin Harris went through the streets claiming they had received a new [r]evelation there was coming out a new Jesus Christ Martin proclaimed one that would open the Eyes of the blind & cause the dum[b] to Speak. I never heard him say so. & on the way to Kirtland that child was born & it was a dead one & it was a she Jesus. It was implicated there at the time it Catherine & I told your brother so. says I it is intimated around that Sidney Rigdon was the origin of that [child][.] [p. 21] says I if you want to go into obscene matters I can tell somethings too. I went to Manchester at a Tavern. The old man Smith got tight there & Blue Brown. And they was always Contending to old Jo. that his Penis was 16 inches long. I told your brother that he climax was [once?][.] it was in a cold day & there their wives sat waiting outside for them &
old Jo. & al measuring his drink. And then they had a square, & they measured; so old Jo. believed it was longer[.] so they pushed so hard they pushed it right through the seat of his breeches. I never believed about this there matter that Tucker put in the book, they claimed about the Wm Stafford black s[h]eep.
[Lorenzo Saunders, Interviewed by E. L. Kelley, 12 November 1884, 1-22, E. L. Kelley Papers, "Miscellany," RLDS Church Library-Archives, Independence, Missouri., as cited in Dan Vogel, Early Mormon Documents: Lorenzo Saunders Interview]
150 years ago today - Nov 12, 1874 (Thursday)
Geo. Q. Cannon was arrested in Salt Lake City, on a charge of polygamy, and placed under $5,000 bonds.
[Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology]
[Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology]
105 years ago today - Nov 11,1919
Apostle James E. Talmage attends Third Christian Citizenship Conference in Pittsburgh as delegate chosen by Utah's governor. Utah delegates are booed and hissed by 4,000 other delegates. Talmage hurriedly leaves after some delegates surround him and threaten to strip off his clothes in order to display his temple garments.
[Quinn, D. Michael, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Appendix 5, Selected Chronology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1848-1996, http://amzn.to/extensions-power]
[Quinn, D. Michael, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Appendix 5, Selected Chronology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1848-1996, http://amzn.to/extensions-power]
170 years ago today - Nov 11, 1854 (Saturday)
Professor Orson Pratt discovered "a new and easy method of solution of the cubic and biquadratic equations."
[Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology]
[Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology]
15 years ago today - 11/10/2009
LDS Church comes out in favor of anti-discrimination ordinances in Salt Lake City, Utah.
[Mormons for Marriage: A Prop 8 Timeline, http://mormonsformarriage.com/?page_id=68]
[Mormons for Marriage: A Prop 8 Timeline, http://mormonsformarriage.com/?page_id=68]
130 years ago today - Nov 10, 1894
[Apostle Francis M. Lyman]
[Deseret] [Bishop Moody had been called to apologize for challenging Brother Western's vote at election because he was a polygamist living with his wives] [Conference] I taught them upon our status in relation to plural marriage. A man is not an adulterer because he lives with his plural wife. We must protect one another. Never betray a brother. All concluded to do right in the future ... Bro[ther] Grant spoke splendidly for an hour upon the Word of Wisdom and politics. There was much Republicanism in his Democracy.
[Excerpts of Apostle Francis M. Lyman Diaries, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
[Deseret] [Bishop Moody had been called to apologize for challenging Brother Western's vote at election because he was a polygamist living with his wives] [Conference] I taught them upon our status in relation to plural marriage. A man is not an adulterer because he lives with his plural wife. We must protect one another. Never betray a brother. All concluded to do right in the future ... Bro[ther] Grant spoke splendidly for an hour upon the Word of Wisdom and politics. There was much Republicanism in his Democracy.
[Excerpts of Apostle Francis M. Lyman Diaries, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
145 years ago today - Nov 10, 1879
I dreamed last night of seeing my Father. He was dressed in white robes. I was myself as were many others. I saw Thomas Bullock the [scribe?] and among other Persons I saw a Number of Gentiles who were our enemies in our midst and I thought they ought not to be with us. I have had a Number of Dreams Lately that seem to have some meaning to them.
I read the following in the Arizona Miner:
"Apostle Wilford Woodruff of the Latter Day Saints x x x recently unbosomed himself to the Mormon Church as follows:
"I will never dishonor my wives & children at the Demand of a Nation Steeped in Sin and ripe for the Damnation of Hell x x x. ..."
I glory in the Epistle & Testimony which I have bourn to all Nation and all the world from which that extract was made and God will hold up my testimony and the testimony of all the righteous. Though the heaven and Earth Pass away The Testimony of inspiration will not Pass away but will all be fulfilled as the Lord liveth.
[Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898 Typescript, Volumes 1-9, Edited by Scott G. Kenney, Signature Books 1993, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
I read the following in the Arizona Miner:
"Apostle Wilford Woodruff of the Latter Day Saints x x x recently unbosomed himself to the Mormon Church as follows:
"I will never dishonor my wives & children at the Demand of a Nation Steeped in Sin and ripe for the Damnation of Hell x x x. ..."
I glory in the Epistle & Testimony which I have bourn to all Nation and all the world from which that extract was made and God will hold up my testimony and the testimony of all the righteous. Though the heaven and Earth Pass away The Testimony of inspiration will not Pass away but will all be fulfilled as the Lord liveth.
[Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898 Typescript, Volumes 1-9, Edited by Scott G. Kenney, Signature Books 1993, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
190 years ago today - 1834 November [10-20]
First issue of the Messenger and Advocate is published in Kirtland, Oliver Cowdery, editor, F. G. Williams & Co., publisher. Includes Oliver's letter to W. W. Phelps from Norton, Ohio, September 7, 1834, recounting translation of the Book of Mormon, angelic restoration of "the holy [Aaronic] priesthood" in the name of the Messiah; and Oliver's letter from Pontiac dated October 20, but referring to the company's arrival at Pontiac, November 8.
[Kenney, Scott, Saints Without Halos, "Mormon History 1830-1844," http://web.archive.org/web/20120805163534/saintswithouthalos.com/dirs/d_c.phtml]
[Kenney, Scott, Saints Without Halos, "Mormon History 1830-1844," http://web.archive.org/web/20120805163534/saintswithouthalos.com/dirs/d_c.phtml]
195 years ago today - Nov 10, 1829
Masonry is referred to as a "secret combination" in the Palmyra Farmer
[Robert Hullinger - Joseph Smith's Response to Skepticism]
[Robert Hullinger - Joseph Smith's Response to Skepticism]
90 years ago today - Nov 9, 1934
[President Heber J. Grant]
I went over to the Deseret Book Company and asked Brother Hooper, the Manager, what he thought would be a fair price to pay for a copyright of Brother Ivins' book 'Mormonism and Free Masonry.' He thought a thousand dollars would be about right. I told him I thought we ought to pay $2500.00. He said that would be a very liberal price. I explained to Ashby Snow that I thought we ought to buy the copyright and pay $2500.00 for it, and he said he thought that would be a very nice thing for Brother Ivins' widow and hoped we would do it.
[Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
I went over to the Deseret Book Company and asked Brother Hooper, the Manager, what he thought would be a fair price to pay for a copyright of Brother Ivins' book 'Mormonism and Free Masonry.' He thought a thousand dollars would be about right. I told him I thought we ought to pay $2500.00. He said that would be a very liberal price. I explained to Ashby Snow that I thought we ought to buy the copyright and pay $2500.00 for it, and he said he thought that would be a very nice thing for Brother Ivins' widow and hoped we would do it.
[Diary of Heber J. Grant, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
95 years ago today - Nov 9, 1929
[First Presidency Letter to President of the South African Mission]
We note what you say regarding the difficulties with which you are confronted pertaining to the colored race. You no doubt are aware of the position taken by the Church to the effect that the descendants of Ham are not considered as being entitled to the holy priesthood. This inhibition comes from the Lord and applies to very person whose veins are but slightly tainted with the blood of Cain, as well as to the full blooded negro. This inhibition on the race of Cain must remain unchanged until the Lord himself orders it otherwise. People whose veins are but slightly tainted with the blood of Cain must be classed as negroes for the reason that while they may distribute the taint in their blood among the white races by intercourse with them, it never can be eliminated while the curse placed on Cain stands unsatisfied. Those who join the Church and are obedient to the commandments, will certainly receive a far greater reward than they could obtain in any other way, eve though they ma
not have the blessings of the priesthood conferred upon them ...
[First Presidency, Letter to Don Mack Dalton, President of the South African Mission, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
We note what you say regarding the difficulties with which you are confronted pertaining to the colored race. You no doubt are aware of the position taken by the Church to the effect that the descendants of Ham are not considered as being entitled to the holy priesthood. This inhibition comes from the Lord and applies to very person whose veins are but slightly tainted with the blood of Cain, as well as to the full blooded negro. This inhibition on the race of Cain must remain unchanged until the Lord himself orders it otherwise. People whose veins are but slightly tainted with the blood of Cain must be classed as negroes for the reason that while they may distribute the taint in their blood among the white races by intercourse with them, it never can be eliminated while the curse placed on Cain stands unsatisfied. Those who join the Church and are obedient to the commandments, will certainly receive a far greater reward than they could obtain in any other way, eve though they ma
not have the blessings of the priesthood conferred upon them ...
[First Presidency, Letter to Don Mack Dalton, President of the South African Mission, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
110 years ago today - Nov 9, 1914
[James E. Talmage]
Spent some time at the office of the First Presidency. During the afternoon attended a meeting of the First Presidency and certain invited members of the Deseret Sunday School Union Board. At this meeting I read aloud several chapters of the book, 'Jesus the Christ' now in process of preparation, the purpose being to ascertain whether the book would be properly suited for the lower or higher grades in the theological department. As was intended the work is being prepared for our people in general, and is not adapted for use as a text book for immature students. It was decided by the First Presidency that the work be completed of the same scope and plan as heretofore followed, and that the theological department of the Deseret Sunday School Union provide their own outline for the students of the first year's work in said department. In connection with the matter of the book it may be well to record here that since my beginning on the writing September 14th last, I have devoted every
spare hour to that labor and have at present in written form though not all in revised condition, twenty chapters. According to present indications the work on the book will be interrupted through other appointments already made. The purpose is, however, to bring it to completion at the earliest possible time though with some relief from the intense pressure under which the writing has been heretofore done.
[James E. Talmage Diary, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
Spent some time at the office of the First Presidency. During the afternoon attended a meeting of the First Presidency and certain invited members of the Deseret Sunday School Union Board. At this meeting I read aloud several chapters of the book, 'Jesus the Christ' now in process of preparation, the purpose being to ascertain whether the book would be properly suited for the lower or higher grades in the theological department. As was intended the work is being prepared for our people in general, and is not adapted for use as a text book for immature students. It was decided by the First Presidency that the work be completed of the same scope and plan as heretofore followed, and that the theological department of the Deseret Sunday School Union provide their own outline for the students of the first year's work in said department. In connection with the matter of the book it may be well to record here that since my beginning on the writing September 14th last, I have devoted every
spare hour to that labor and have at present in written form though not all in revised condition, twenty chapters. According to present indications the work on the book will be interrupted through other appointments already made. The purpose is, however, to bring it to completion at the earliest possible time though with some relief from the intense pressure under which the writing has been heretofore done.
[James E. Talmage Diary, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
125 years ago today - Nov 9, 1899
[Brigham Young Jr.]
This weather is too cold for me. I believe Pres[ident]. [Lorenzo] Snow ought to go to a warmer climate for the winter. His cold is a dangerous one I believe, but some warm atmosphere would bring him back to health.
[Brigham Young Jr. Diary, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
This weather is too cold for me. I believe Pres[ident]. [Lorenzo] Snow ought to go to a warmer climate for the winter. His cold is a dangerous one I believe, but some warm atmosphere would bring him back to health.
[Brigham Young Jr. Diary, as quoted in Minutes of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1910-1951, Privately Published, Salt Lake City, Utah 2010]
140 years ago today - Nov 9, 1884
LDS political newspaper, the Salt Lake Herald reports that it was "a refreshing and pleasing sight to many" when Presiding Bishopric counselor John Q. Cannon assaulted a reporter for the anti-Mormon Salt Lake Tribune, then took out "a riding whip, and struck his victim a couple of times over the head. Then he knocked him down." A Mormon judge fines Cannon $15 for battering the reporter, described as "a diminutive individual, with a Hebraic cast of countenance."
[The Mormon Hierarchy - Extensions of Power by D. Michael Quinn, [New Mormon History database ( http://bit.ly/NMHdatabase )]]
[The Mormon Hierarchy - Extensions of Power by D. Michael Quinn, [New Mormon History database ( http://bit.ly/NMHdatabase )]]
135 years ago today - Nov 8, 1889
[Heber J. Grant]
This evening I went to Centerville on the train intending to spend the day there to morrow with [plural wife] Emily and the babies, but at the depot I was seen by Thos. Harris and I learned from Bro. Jno. Woolley that he is the worst person in Centerville to give our folks away to the Marshal and I therefore concluded that it would be better for me to change the location of the folks so I asked Bro Woolley to drive us to Woods Cross which he kindly did. I shall be glad when the day comes that I can repay some of the favors extended to me by my friends.
[The Diaries of Heber J. Grant, 1880-1945, Abridged, Digital Edition Salt Lake City, Utah, 2015]
This evening I went to Centerville on the train intending to spend the day there to morrow with [plural wife] Emily and the babies, but at the depot I was seen by Thos. Harris and I learned from Bro. Jno. Woolley that he is the worst person in Centerville to give our folks away to the Marshal and I therefore concluded that it would be better for me to change the location of the folks so I asked Bro Woolley to drive us to Woods Cross which he kindly did. I shall be glad when the day comes that I can repay some of the favors extended to me by my friends.
[The Diaries of Heber J. Grant, 1880-1945, Abridged, Digital Edition Salt Lake City, Utah, 2015]
180 years ago today - November 8, 1844. Friday.
[William Clayton]
....P.M. went to see Jane Hardman. She prefers me for a Saviour [husband] to anyone else, so she says.
[George D. Smith, An Intimate Chronicle; The Journals of William Clayton, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1995, http://amzn.to/william-clayton]
....P.M. went to see Jane Hardman. She prefers me for a Saviour [husband] to anyone else, so she says.
[George D. Smith, An Intimate Chronicle; The Journals of William Clayton, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1995, http://amzn.to/william-clayton]
185 years ago today - Nov 8, 1839
[Apostle Wilford Woodruff]
I saw Mrs Woodruff in deep affliction in a dream at Montrose. I did not see Sarah Emma.
[Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898 Typescript, Volumes 1-9, Edited by Scott G. Kenney, Signature Books 1993, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
I saw Mrs Woodruff in deep affliction in a dream at Montrose. I did not see Sarah Emma.
[Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898 Typescript, Volumes 1-9, Edited by Scott G. Kenney, Signature Books 1993, http://amzn.to/newmormonstudies]
130 years ago today - Wednesday, Nov 7, 1894
[Apostle John Henry Smith]
Salt Lake City
The internal interests are saved. The flag again floats for the American people. F[rank] J. Cannon is elected to Congress. My precinct has gone Republican. I am elected a delegate to the Constitutional Convention.
[Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith]
Salt Lake City
The internal interests are saved. The flag again floats for the American people. F[rank] J. Cannon is elected to Congress. My precinct has gone Republican. I am elected a delegate to the Constitutional Convention.
[Jean Bickmore White (editor), Church, State, and Politics: The Diaries of John Henry Smith, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1990, http://bit.ly/johnhenrysmith]
140 years ago today - Nov 7, 1884
First anti-Salt Lake Tribune editorial appears in the Deseret News.
[Sherry Baker: Mormon Media History Timeline: 1827-2007, http://byustudies.byu.edu/showTitle.aspx?title=7984]
[Sherry Baker: Mormon Media History Timeline: 1827-2007, http://byustudies.byu.edu/showTitle.aspx?title=7984]
145 years ago today - Nov 07, 1879
The SS Arizona, a ship that carried more than 1,250 Latter-day Saints in nine crossings of the Atlantic, collides with a huge iceberg on its way from New York to Liverpool. Four Mormon missionaries are on board. The damage is extensive, but the ship makes it safely to a port in Newfoundland.
150 years ago today - Nov 7, 1874
[Mountain Meadows Massacre]
John Lee, a fugitive for fifteen years, is captured in a chicken coop near Panguitch, Utah. Soon thereafter, federal authorities arrest William Dame.
[Linder, Douglas, The Mountain Meadows Massacre Trials, http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/FTRIALS/mountainmeadows/leechrono.html]
John Lee, a fugitive for fifteen years, is captured in a chicken coop near Panguitch, Utah. Soon thereafter, federal authorities arrest William Dame.
[Linder, Douglas, The Mountain Meadows Massacre Trials, http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/FTRIALS/mountainmeadows/leechrono.html]
180 years ago today - Nov 7, 1844
Brigham Young (aged 43) marriage to Olive Grey Frost (1816-1845) (aged 28) plural widow of Joseph Smith, Jr. sealed to Joseph Smith, Jr. for eternity and Young for life
[Wikipedia, List of Brigham Young's Wives, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives]
[Wikipedia, List of Brigham Young's Wives, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives]
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